Multiple Attacks: A character who can make more than one attack per round must use the full-attack action(see Full-Round Actions) in order to get more than one attack. Combat follows this sequence: 1. So somewhere along the way I got the rules for sneak attack completely wrong. You can provide flanking, but the rules clearly state that you have to be making a melee attack to be considered flanking and get the +2. Since ranged characters no longer gain flanking bonuses, this also means that ranged attacks do not automatically gain a Sneak Attack if the target is flanked by other units. If you Strike a creature that has the flat-footed condition with an agile or finesse melee weapon, an agile or finesse unarmed attack, or a ranged weapon attack, you deal an extra 1d6 precision damage. The only things immune to sneak attack in PF are elementals, incorporeal creatures (if you don't have ghost-touch), oozes and proteans. Flanking still only applies to melee attacks, even if you're in a position to provide flanking. Only the character on the opposite side has to threaten the enemy by RAW, for the attacker to get a flanking bonus. Point Blank Shot is more useful for you than it is for other ranged combatants, since you’re going to spend much more time within 30 feet of your enemies to deal sneak attack damage. It's worded a little odd, but that's all it's saying. Sneak Attack: The sneak attack ability that increases +1d6 every three levels suggests that the build focus on ways to maximize sneak attack damage. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. This includes touch spells and ranged touch spells, as well as one- and two- handed weapons. I would disagree. When in doubt about whether two characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two attackers' centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent's space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.". I had assumed, as apparently the developers had, that all the feat was intended to do was let you come in and benefit from flanking when you and at least two other allies are attacking a single opponent in melee. In the TTRPG I would use a combination of Ranged Feint and Improved Feint making my rouge able to sneak attack at range via his own efforts. There is no indication anywhere, nor does the attack … You are able to take advantage of gaps in your opponent's defence to deal more damage with spells. No special feats or additional requirements necessary. There are clear precedents that call out flanking as melee attacks clear intent to have said attacks while flanking be the same mode as the weapon causing the flanking. Also, throw the rogue a bone. Let's toss a few takeaways from the actual text out real quick. Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent. Are the parties in the correct positions? Why couldn't you SA an incorporeal creature without ghost touch? I'm on the fence about this. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. C.) Flank exists outside of an active melee attack. To illustrate specific techniques for macros specifically designed for the Pathfinder RPG system and to demonstrate their use through examples. PLEASE quote that RAW so we can end this thread. Another example is the unarmed strike for most characters. Sneak attack can be used with ANY melee or ranged attack, as long as the opponent is flat footed. I used that link but I would be wary of trying to use logic gymnastics to try to convince somebody about RAW especially since that quote is being used after talking about the 50% damage reduction and the crit issue is never mentioned in the incorporeal special quality. Or even ten encounters? In order to get the Flanking Bonus you must meet its requirements and also be flanking. In melee Combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. Long video, but I cover some info that may be useful to Rogue players and newcomers to D&D style games. That first shot of hers gets her sneak attack bonus. The analysis is the same every time. D.) Only the flanking bonus ever actually states a requirement for melee attacks. You are just never flanking it for a bonus with ranged weapons. I disagree. Spellcasters can choose to Cast Defensively (in fact, in Pathfinder: Kingmaker, it’s automatically assumed you’re casting defensively) to avoid provoking an Attack of Opportunity. If flanking only exists during a single melee attack, then it is impossible for two characters to be flanking at the same time, and the system breaks. No restriction of, "while actively attacking" is given. Darkvision (70 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only). That's been the answer every time this has come up. Combatan… With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. Whether this is meant to be the case, or it was a gut reaction to the use of a swarm feat for sniping, is not known. Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise. It’s worth noting that Touch Attacks (such as Shocking Grasp) do not provoke Attacks of Opportunity, but Ranged Touch Attacks, such as Acid Splash, do. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5. Debilitating Injury: Bewildered -2/-6 (Ex) Foe who takes sneak attack damage takes AC pen (more vs. striker) for 1 rd. 'Being flanked' is not a rule-defined condition. Impromptu Sneak Attack (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, once per day an arcane trickster can declare one melee or ranged attack she makes to be a sneak attack (the target can be no more than 30 feet distant if the impromptu sneak attack is a ranged attack). With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. Skill Ranks per Level: 3 + ½ Int modifier. Melee touch attacks are an explicit exception to this. This allows the rogue to apply Sneak Attack to a ranged attack if he meets the requirements, i.e., threatening opposite of a threatening ally. The system assumes you are flanking at all times, but per the definition of flanking, it only applies on a melee attack, which means all of the abilities that assume other people are flanking don't actually work. note this will cost you potentially 3 attack bonus. B.) Everyone who has posted agrees, or once they look more closely at the rules changes their mind to agree. Holding a weapon makes you threaten adjacent squares regardless of whether or not you're attacking someone. So even if Flanking is only positional, you still cannot actively flank with a ranged weapon because the Gang Up FAQ says exactly that. Go to the combat section and look at "Table: Attack Roll Modifiers". With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. ", We can also look at Enfilading Fire:
it requires that you attack a foe that is currently being flanked (by two other allies). 4. As such, feelings about how we should rule it are irrelevant. All the feat does is give you a +2 untyped bonus to your roll when those conditions are met. It is also impossible for a character to be flanked by anyone while you're making a ranged attack. With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. I will jump on the "Ambiguous" train. When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner. That's exactly what the problem is. Except it seems my pistols don't do sneak attacks on afflicted targets? For example, looking at Assault Leader clears this up. They also help us understand how our site is being used. As it is, several feats and abilities that depend on the target being "flanked" do not work unless the user is attacking the defender with a melee weapon. Edit: A 2 level dip in eldritch archer will also provide an extra attack when you get spell strike. Is this really worth saying no to? Enfilading fire works perfectly with this. Are you prepping for a melee attack? Ranged attack rolls use Dexterity as their ability modifier. It is you that assumes the first paragraph is the only way flanking can come up. \$\endgroup\$ – Thomas Markov Jun 23 at 15:57 Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. When there is ambiguity in a rules call, then situational factors come into play. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. And more importantly, these feats don't actually provide any flanking benefits to the character taking the action - they provide separate benefits distinct from flanking altogether. If you have a specific ability that capitalizes off of flanking differently, then you apply the stated benefits as directed. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Being flanked can be interpreted as 'an ally threatening the target is flanking', which is a push towards b, as the ally is clearly in a condition for that to be true. Either you can normally flank from range (because flanking is only positional), but the Gang Up FAQ says you cannot allow ranged attacks to benefit from what is exclusively a positional change, or flanking requires something more than just an analysis of relative positions, and you cannot flank from range because flanking actually contemplates melee combat. Nothing says that the attacking character has to threaten to get the flanking bonus. A full build of a Halfling Knife Master Rogue specialising in Sneak Attacks by using Trip and Teamwork feats If you're incorporeal, you have no anatomy and thus no vital spots. The big drawback to this is that you can't flank with ranged weapons in most cases, which is the primary situation that a rogue would get sneak attacks. An opponent is flanked by characters that meet the imaginary line requirement. More to the point, no one may allow sneak attack on ranged attacks, but that doesn't mean the rules completely preclude it. In Pathfinder: Kingmaker the rouge has to be partied with a caster to make enemies flat footed, attack an distracted enemy, or run behind the enemy, becoming a main target, to deal sneak attack damage. Source: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document ↓ Attributes. It's round 1 of combat and she's won initiative. Ranged Sneak Attack. I have to lean in the direction of you cannot Sneak Attack with a ranged weapon from flanking RAI, but you CAN RAW. The question is not 'should rogues get this?' Enfilading Fire and Coordinated Shot change the relevant parties and how that impacts the acting character. When firing a chosen ranged weapon type, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity even while threatened. Also note that many colored items are also links to the Paizo SRD. My opinion:
The problem is that there is no flanking outside of a melee attack, despite Enfilading Fire incorrectly suggesting there is. General Tabletop Discussion *Pathfinder & Starfinder. A rogue would get sneak attack from within 30ft if: the target was denied their dexterity. I'm not seeing an emphatic "yes" as an answer to any of those questions, so I would throw a dog a bone. -- 65 Enchanted Trinkets for D&D 5E. Last part of the section, "the opponent is flanked.". History Talk (1) Share. Flanking only applies on melee attacks. IE Using a non-threatening weapon to attack while the opponent is threatened on the opposite side. That is the problem. Are you arguing that wizards are worse than rogues? Sneak attack applies to any and all attacks made by the rogue if the opponent is denied their dexterity bonus to AC (whether or not the creature has a dexterity) or is flanking the creature. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the rogue's level + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. Thing is rogues already have medium BAB and you have to pay for 2 magic weapons instead of 1 so you don't get as much damage as you'd think. 645. After the surprise round (if any), all combatants are ready to begin the first normal round of combat. Today, we’re going to be talking about the sneak attack class feature. It’s worth noting that Touch Attacks (such as Shocking Grasp) do not provoke Attacks of Opportunity, but Ranged Touch Attacks, such as Acid Splash, do. "Once per day, when the rogue misses with an attack on a flanked opponent, she can designate a single ally who is also flanking the target that her attack missed. Bleeding : Take damage equal to Bleed amount (overlaps) at the beginning of your turn; Cures: DC 15 Heal check Magical healing of HP (stops ability bleeding as well) Blinded-2 AC and lose Dex bonus; Opponents have total concealment; 50% miss chance. The only reason I FAQed it is because someone else did, and I didn't want people to think I was that guy who FAQs his own posts when no one else does :p. I don't think this is necessarily a corner case. Secondly, here is the context of the line you quoted: You don't threaten while casting a spell, so if you're casting something like Summon Monster or Lesser Restoration with a casting time measured in rounds, you don't threaten in the meanwhile. This damage increases by 1d6 every 3 levels thereafter. In this Build we will Multiclass a Rogue Knife Master, Monk and Fighter. Great Gear Early On: Bracers of Archery (around level 6) and Death From Afar (around level 9, found in the second portion of the Tenebrous Depths) are items you’ll find and never unequip. The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. Flanking is a conditional bonus that only applies to melee attacks, and only lasts for the duration of that melee attack. It proves the author and editors didn't understand how flanking works in pathfinder. There's still the 9th level spells, the 7th level, the 6th level, etc. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A lot of feats are poorly written with the idea that flanking is some sort of 'condition', and it is: But technically these feats do nothing except when you actually make a melee attack. But still flanking is an attack roll modifier. At some point when everyone else says the sky is blue, even though you insist it is green, the argument is moot. I do not see this as being supported by RAW. However, consensus does not mean that everyone is right about what the words on the page say. Take Assault Leader for example:
I want to play a ranged mindstalker in a bit of a pirate-theme with double pistols while debuffing them as a beguiler and getting sneak attacks in that way.. The rouge is able to do sneak attack damage on threatened ranged foes. "can this be abused?". The requirements for the condition are laid out, albeit very vaguely. Power Attack: Combat Str 13: Take a penalty to hit for twice as much bonus damage. Gang Up changes the position aspect of flanking. Characters that flank are flanking. Alignment: All arcane tricksters have a penchant for mischief and thievery, and are therefore never lawful. 51 DAMMIT! Because so little of 3.5 is available on the SRD, I will attempt to tag items with a superscript indicating their book of origin. If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Is the type of attack being made one that can benefit from the positions the relevant parties are in? Wizard [Transmuter] level 1, Rogue level 1 . Of course, Pathfinder is a game, so when adjudicating the rules, the GM is encouraged to listen to everyone’s point of view and make a decision that is both fair and fun. "You receive a +2 bonus on ranged attacks made against a foe flanked by 1 or more allies with this feat.". It's, again, a melee weapon that you make a melee attack with, yet it doesn't threaten (assuming you have no Improved Unarmed Strike feat). Pathfinder Kingmaker Builds: Thousand Stabs. Shooting or Throwing into a Melee : If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. In Pathfinder, you can sneak attack and crit undead. That would allow ranged sneak attacks to work, Enfilading Fire to work, along with actually making sense. Clearly, you often need to check whether someone else is flanking. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. The question at hand is 'does this say what we think it says', and once that is answered we can move to 'should it be used this way'. Any benefits from flanking are relevant to melee attacks. Flanking isn't a condition on a creature. Honestly, I don't think it's a great candidate for FAQ because I freely admit it's a corner case that will rarely if ever come up in a game. Maybe now's not the best time to mention this was actually inspired by, Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber, Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber, Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. This … But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text? 1. Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on ranged attacks made against a foe flanked by 1 or more allies with this feat. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee Combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a Standard Action. "will this set a bad precedent?" For example, Whips are melee weapons that make melee attacks, but they do not not threaten. Sneak Attack can be further customized and improved with Ambush Feats . 13:05. But that still doesn't explain why they wouldn't just put +0. Sneak Attack When your enemy can’t properly defend itself, you take advantage to deal extra damage. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Flanking seems to be either a) a bonus to your attack roll or b) a bonus and a condition for a character against a target. The only place "Flanking" is defined is as a bonus to a melee attack. The other side has pointed out various language throughout the game rules that shows flanking is a condition which perpetually exists, as long as the positional conditions are met. A successful Fortitude save reduces this effect to staggered for 1 round. If all the characters are aware of their opponents, proceed with normal rounds. So why on earth would you think that if there are two ways to read a feat, and in one reading you can't do ANYTHING, while the other reading gives you a slight advantage.... that the reading where you can't do ANYTHING is the correct reading... its a very pessimistic outlook on life. You check for flanking only when making a melee attack. The Gang Up FAQ makes it clear that the Devs consider being eligible for the flanking bonus to be a requirement of flanking with any given attack. See the surprisesection for more information. Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. 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All 1s on the page say few takeaways from the actual text out real quick to!: point-blank Shot: combat +1 attack and damage with ranged weapons within 30 feet about how we rule... This seems like a lot of energy spent into trying to exploit wording have. You see, you have a single melee attack, this extra damage is applied for hit... Turns on or off, directly depending on position and threatening the target is within 30 feet flanked '' defined... Frankly there is simply no way under the rules changes their mind to.... Second time in 24 hours I mistakenly read something from d20pfsrd as 1st party when it was...... Spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature ghost...